Time may tell whether this guest editorial's position is correct or not, but ignoring a significant grassroots movement for 2010, impetuous or prescient, will not make it go away. Also, ignoring the 2010 effort appears to me to threaten the united front built to oppose Prop 8. There are some bad feelings over 2010/2012 that may get worse unless these differences are addressed head-on. It is also fair to point out that many of the grassroots folks did a lot of the active organizing against Prop 8 and are also organizing in the communities where we need to build up support. These problems need to be addressed, and soon.

The amount of organizing and financial investment it would take to mount a serious campaign in 2010--much less win--would be incredibly difficult to achieve at this point. Despite the noise many groups seem to be making about 2010, there is not enough on the ground work taking place to lay the foundations necessary in the public to change minds. In the midst of the deepest recession since the 1930s, it's questionable at best to ask people to spend millions of dollars on an effort that may not succeed--especially if we would then go back to these same donors in 2012 and ask for millions more.

The blow to morale a loss in 2010 would bring to the gay and lesbian movement would be a deep one indeed. After Prop 8, we could at least argue that we fought and lost a valiant defensive battle against foes determined to undo the rights of millions of Californians. If we lose in 2010, we will have lost a battle we initiated--indicating clearly that, from a strategic perspective, the coalitions in support of marriage equality still lack what it takes to bring equal rights to all.

This position is contrary to many of the well respected campaign gurus of the last election cycle.

Ace Smith, a ranking advisor in the '08 Hillary Campaign, suggests that 2010 is not different than 2012 in terms of expectations about a campaign victory. There are too many factors that can't be foreseen that could steer the election one way or the other. He further suggests that repealing Prop 8 is not like a typical political campaign. He says "this is a movement, and you can't plan a movement" - you either join it or you don't. He added “no wall can be toppled without constant and firm pressure”.

Steve Hildebrand, the openly gay campaign advisor for Barack Obama, said that he can't imagine not fighting an initiative in which only 3% of the voters need to be convinced.

There is plenty of good evidence that 2010 is the best time to defeat prop 8.

Public polling from April indicates that a proposition to repeal prop 8 which includes a reiteration of 1st amendment rights and freedom of religious practice, gives us a majority of support. (This pole was taken before 5 other states have made equal marriage law)

Anecdotal evidence from ongoing CA field campaigns indicate that precincts that voted 55-70% in favor of Prop 8, are now showing 80% favorability for equal marriage. Many ‘08 voters are expressing that they thought the initiative was about schools or churchs.

A 2010 campaign is the constant and firm pressure that Ace Smith talked about. There is a committed coalition of organizations working to restore equality in 2010 that includes Courage Campaign, Love Honor Cherish, San Diego Alliance for Marriage Equality, and over 50 organizations small and large across the state. I urge you to look at real evidence instead of speculation that is at the heart of this editorial. This election will be far less expensive in 2010, will have very pro-marriage equality candidates at the top of the ticket (Gavin Newsom or Jerry Brown), may get a boost from the youth voters who want to expand the legality of cannabis, and is the target of the great majority of members of EQCA, Courage Campaign and Marriage Equality USA in Spring polling.

Please write to the San Diego Gay and Lesbian Center to urge them to stand up for your rights, join the movement, and defeat prop 8 as soon as possible –in 2010.

This editorial was a refreshing break from the deluge of 2010 arguments being floated around town. Thanks Carlos and Hans. Tough statement to make but it's the right way to go. :)

You say Tomatos and I say Potatos, lets not call the whole thing off in 2010.

Dear Editor,

As a long time activist of our San Diego LGBTQIQAA community and activist for Same Sex Marriage Equality fighting to repeal prop 8, let it be known that Hans Johnson and Carlos Marquez –
DO NOT SPEAK FOR ME!

I do not support putting legislation on the ballot in 2012 and never will!
The time is NOW and those who are stalling action happening in 2010 need to step back and let those of us ready to do the hard work of fighting to get our civil rights back - do what needs to be done. Step aside if you don’t support 2010 – The majority of our community does support 2010 and the debate is over. Get over it! We must move forward – NOW!!! We are Ready - Si Se Puede!

I am the membership coordinator and a member of S.A.M.E. (San Diego Alliance for Marriage Equality) which was one of the FIRST Marriage Equality organizations to vote to support California ballot legislation in 2010. There are many more organizations who support 2010: Courage Campaign, Love – Honor - Cherish, Repeal prop 8 in 2010, Yes! On Equality, Restore Equality in 2010, just to name a few.

There are a lot of organizations including people of Color and Faith-Based groups who ‘unofficially’ support 2010 and are waiting until the ballot language is submitted, within the next month to the California registrar of voters, before they ‘officially’ make a statement of support for 2010.

For the record: Unite Here – Local 30 at this time supports a ballot initiative – PERIOD - and has NOT stated 2010 or 2012. Though Carlos Marquez is an employee of The San Diego LGBT Center, The Center has NOT indorsed either 2010 or 2012. Marriage Equality – USA nor local ME-USA/S.D. one of the oldest LGBT Marriage Equality organizations has not indorsed either, though they strongly support California legislation for Marriage Equality.

I encourage anyone concerned about the issue of Same Sex Marriage Equality and repealing California prop 8 to attend the S.D. Democratic Club discussion on Thursday, Sept. 25 at the Joyce Beers Room in the Uptown Center, located on Vermont St., one block north of University Ave. in Hillcrest. Meeting begins at 7pm, social time at 6:30. There will be a strong educational message why we MUST move forward in 2010.

For the majority of us who support restoring Same Sex Marriage Equality in 2010 please attend the Town Hall meeting on SUNDAY, SEPTEMBER 20TH from 5:00 - 7:00PM with Toni Atkins and Keynote Speaker Dr. Pat Washington at the Tubman/Chavez Center - 415 N. Euclid Ave., San Diego, CA 92114. This Town Hall meeting is to elect the 3 San Diego representatives to the Restore Equality in 2010 campaign. Light refreshments will be served. We need a few volunteers to help set up and clean up. Please arrive early at 4:30PM and contact Wendy Sue - WSUEB@AOL.COM 619-563-1086 if you are able to volunteer.

The Organizational Plan is a communication and decision-making structure for grassroots involved in the signature gathering campaign to place a proposition on the ballot that would repeal prop 8. On August 29th, at San Francisco State University, over 80 activists from all parts of California selected a plan to create a council of organizations and individuals to unite signature gathering efforts throughout California. The plan mapped out an organizational structure that will empower activists to work regionally to accomplish the task of gathering the 1 million estimated signatures required to qualify for the ballot in 2010. California is divided into 10 regions, each region will elect representatives who will be tasked with communications to the greater statewide Grassroots Council while also coordinating outreach, volunteers and resources within their respective regions. Delegates for the Grassroots Council will be chosen at regional town hall events through the month of September. For more information about the Restore Equality in 2010 campaign contact: Sara Beth Brooks - sarabrooks@gmail.com
http://www.restoreequality2010.com/

The campaign to restore Same Sex Marriage Equality in 2010 IS happening as we speak, we ARE moving forward with the campaign – NOW! To those who are stalling for 2012, the discussion is over, we are moving forward and WE WILL have EQUALITY on the ballot in 2010. GET OVER IT! Step aside or join us, just stop fighting US - WE need everyone to win this fight for OUR LGBT Civil Rights! NOW!

Wendy Sue Biegeleisen
S.A.M.E. Membership Coordinator

Thank you, Hans and Carlos, for your articulate article summarizing the rationale for waiting until 2012. Waiting until 2012 gives us two more years to organize. Youth and progressives are more likely to vote in a Presidential election year than in an off-year election, and some elderly, who are most likely to vote against us, will not be voting by then. We are in a serious economic recession right now which will make it difficult to raise the money to fight a good campaign next year. The economy is likely to be better by 2012. Losing an election that we initiate could make it harder to win, just as the anti-choice forces who've placed parental notification initiatives on the ballot three times, have lost by larger and larger margins. We all want equality now. Let's take the time we need to do the organizing work, sponsor an initiative at a time that is best for us, and win.

All explanations for 2012 are stalling tactics, step aside or join the movement for 2010 - It's happening - NOW! Get a clue the discussion is OVER, we are moving forward for 2010 weather you come on board or not. Those from EQCA are paid staff who want job security as long as possible. The money raised for EQCA goes for paid staff - NOT the fight for Same Sex Marriage Equality. A top down paid No on prop 8 campaign, that didn't listen to the people and volunteers, created this mess. EQCA should have NO say in the Marriage Equality Movement!

Thank you for this. I wholeheartedly agree and would only caution our community that we cannot rely on the 'replacement voters'. We must, by telling our stories, by being visible, by being proud of our lives, our accomplishments and our community, strive to win the votes needed to overturn Prop 8.
LD Thompson

I have all the respect in the world for strong LGBT equality advocates like Wendy Sue who favor running an initiative next year, but if we can't respect each other even when we disagree, what kind of community are we? Why degrade the staff of EQCA simply because they are paid? They work full-time and more for LGBT equality because they've dedicated their lives. They've won many victories and deserve our respect. The same is true of NGLTF. As for those of us who aren't paid for this work, of which I am one, we do it out of love, passion, and a strong drive for equality for all. We are a large and diverse group, and it's no surprise we have our disagreements. This is a serious strategic discussion we're having in which there is no place for degrading others simply because they disagree.

As for running an initiative next year, may I add that a number of major funders of the No on 8 campaign have already said they are in opposition, and they have refused to finance paid signature gatherers, which because of the number of signatures needed to get on the California ballot, have always been needed to get any initiative on the ballot.

Those of us who oppose running an initiative next year support organizing for marriage equality. I am going to Maine on my own dime to fight against Ballot Measure 1, their version of Prop 8, and I speak daily for marriage equality among the diverse membership and staff of the union for which I work. I've been part of the fight for LGBT equality and for social and economic justice for decades, and I never give up, even when we suffer setbacks. What I've learned is that when you have the luxury of choosing your battles, which we did not last fall but do now, that you do so wisely at a time and on a playing field you know you can win. I will do everything I can to win support for marriage equality in the next few years and am excited about running an initiative to overturn Prop 8 when we've had time to lay the groundwork, have a better environment in which to raise the needed funds, and have a more favorable electorate, as we have every presidential election vs. mid-term elections. For those reasons, I think we'd do better to wait to run an initiative in 2012.

Why wait til 2012? What is wrong with waiting until 2016 or 2020? Most of the senior voters will be dead and so will I! The argument for waiting is a poor one. Of course if we wait there will always be a better chance, but at whose expense? The highly paid so called leaders like Kors would love to wait as long as they can so they don't have to find another job. Would you turn down a million dollars?

Thanks to Hans and to Carlos for a well-written presentation of why waiting until 2012 just might be the way to go. Your comments were clear, concise and very helpful to those of us who are still trying to decide which way to go. I wish you had commented on what role, if any, the current court case plays in the discussion of 2010 or 2012. Perhaps a follow up article would be helpful. The GLT was gracious enough to provide you with the editorial page for your presentation - hopefully they would allow additional space to shed some light on the affect, if any, that the court case may or may not have. Although I agree that we should never have to wait for rights, if we are going to win – we have to run a well-organized campaign. From my standpoint, you have made your case – “We need to work together in a three-year effort to build the pro-equality majority required to win a “yes” vote for equality in 2012. The next campaign in California to win back marriage, unlike the battle against Prop 8, is one governed by our choices.”

Our community is lucky to have passionate activists on both sides of the 2010 vs. 2112 issue. Unfortunately, some of the responses to this guest editorial are not the way to win support. The following rhetoric is not helpful : “ To those who are stalling for 2012, the discussion is over, we are moving forward and WE WILL have EQUALITY on the ballot in 2010. GET OVER IT! Step aside or join us, just stop fighting US!” If you truly have a valid argument, request space from the GLT and make your presentation in a clear and concise manner. Just don’t lecture us or ask us to step aside – remember, you will need our vote in the 2010 election if gay marriage is on the ballot.

Again, Hans and Carlos – thanks for taking the time to make a very thoughtful presentation on an issue that is important to many in our community.

The editorial says we need 3 years for "Building support for marriage equality among African American...." I have yet to hear any leader of a pro-2012 group explain what we're to do when the #1 African American, President Obama, is opposed to same-gender marriage. Just this week the Obama Administration filed a motion in Boston to throw out the suit against DOMA.

I hope I am wrong, but I thing the 2010 effort is doomed to fail. There are a lot of egos at work to get this on the ballot for 2010. Some say "the majority" of us want the 2010 effort. I was never polled or asked what I thought, so how, and by whom, is this decision made? Unchecked egos at work I think...There isn't time to change enough minds in the Hispanic and African American communities to make a difference, and that's where the votes in favor of same sex marriage will have to come from. I fear burnout is going to set in if the 2010 effort fails, and then what will happen? Another aborted attempt in 2012 and another failure? We really will have to wait for the US Supreme Court to rule in our favor if we fail in 2010 and 2012.

O.K. Wendy Sue, I'm in, 2010 it is.

The argument between the 2010 and 2012 factions on this issue seems like what I'd imagine the conflicts between the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee and the King camp resembled back in the 1960s. Two sides, who agree in principle on nearly every issue related to civil rights, battle publicly over tactics and give enemies of progress an advantage over our movement.

Like during the US Civil Rights Movement, both sides are fighting for their very rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. And also like the movement of 50 years ago, one side takes a just position that change is a moral imperative and should happen immediately while the other side takes a more pragmatic approach to bringing about legislative change using the Constitutional process. I am not a smart enough man to say whether one side is more or less righteous than the other, but I happen to fit into the second category on this question.

While I fully believe that this city has massive human resources who would mobilize and do the leg work to place an initiative on the 2010 ballot to overturn proposition 8, I have two major reservations about the wisdom of doing so:

-The first reservation is laid out above, in much more coherent verbage than I could ever put together. Having been working on raising money with a marriage equality org over the past few weeks, I know firsthand that raising another $40M for a statewide campaign will be nearly impossible in this economy and fully impossible in such a short timeframe as would be necessary to support a battle over the next 14 months. Additionally, public opinion has likely not shifted enough to guarantee us a solid victory if it were to go back to the people so soon. Marriage Equality USA and Equality California are out in the streets talking to people about civil marriage and civil rights. They're doing the most important (and least expensive) work that this movement needs to win with the electorate: education. I don't believe that 14 months is long enough to change enough minds. As frustrating as it is to a person with such a personal perspective and a respect for history, I realize that not everyone understands the reasons why we're right and why it will take much more than 1 year to convince enough voters of the significance of this vote.

-My second concern is that a rush back to the ballot box will hinder progressives from what may be an equally important political race in 2010. Mayor Newsom is, with enormous respect to our own mayor, probably the most significant ally that the LGBT community has in this state right now and he is running for governor. In spite of his high-profile endorsement by President Clinton this week, you can bet that the far right is going to go after him about everything... the universal healthcare package that he's implemented in San Francisco and gay marriage, just to start. Mayor Newsom is the only candidate talking seriously about reforming the woeful taxation, budget, and constitutional amendment process in this state and he needs the support of the progressive community, who would otherwise be occupied with a same sex marriage fight. I believe that waiting 38 months is the right thing to do because the Presidential and Senatorial races in 2012 won't be nearly as contentious here in California as the gubernatorial race of 2010 will be.

I suppose that not all of the activists in our community will ever agree on this argument, but I hope that we can all remember that we're working towards the same goal and try to understand one another's positions as best we can.

Daniel, I think your analogizing to political struggles during the Civil Rights movement is apt, and in fact one sees these two camps in many political struggles over long time spans, and one is not always on the same side. For example, in 1963 in his "Letter From a Birmingham Jail", Dr. King was definitely not in the take-this-slower camp. I don't believe that in the long run these political struggles inevitably aid the enemies of our rights to equality. They can help to make us stronger and bring us together. But we must keep talking to people who have a different view or are undecided and keep in mind that we are all sisters and brothers who have similar goals and treat each other accordingly-with love and respect.

State Assembly Speaker Karen Bass says
generic gays need to pay Afro-Americans
reparations first, before blacks will
vote for us. Bass is Afro-American.
How about it, Wendy Sue? You're a great
believer in building bridges.

It appears that Yes on Equality has a proposed initiative for the 2010 ballot. I believe, according to the Sec. of State's website, that the deadline for ballot initiatives is this week or next. Is SAME going to adopt Yes on Equality's initiative - or write their own?

Boycott these ridiculously wasteful efforts in California! Equality and freedom for LGBT people will be secured in North Carolina, Virginia and similar places where public opinion is evolving rapidly and has a far greater influence on our national fabric. Support efforts that actually have a real impact: http://www.equalitync.org/

http://orangepolitics.org/

Our LGBT leaders have let us down with their impoverished strategic thinking and obsession with California. They are in need of a teachable moment. "API"???? At least refer to the pawns on the chessboard by their correct names!

Someone should also ask the National Gay & Lesbian Task Force what percent of their budget was wasted in California on their failed strategy last year. Putting all the eggs in one basket in an example of epic folly... Results oriented donors will not be investing in those failed strategic planning efforts.